Forum: Operation Ostwind
Topic: Ostwind Setting/Theme
started by: Aldrich

Posted by Aldrich on Aug. 20 2015,10:55
Since we are a go with Ostwind, I think it would be good to pick out a theme or time frame that the event takes place in.  

My vote would be for 1944, operation Bagration.  With that time frame, the setting could be anywhere from western Ukraine, Eastern Europe, to Poland.  Plus, since much of Bagration took place in swamps and heavy forests, it would fit the terrain that we would be working with.  Also, since massive offensives often saw soldiers on both sides becoming isolated through overextended advances and dramatic breakthroughs, scenarios with small unit actions would fit in pretty well.  

Uniform and equipment restrictions would be pretty accommodating with what we have already.  As a whole, uniform items from 1944 would be preferred.  That means m42-43 uniforms for the Germans, and m43 uniforms for the Russians.  Granted, earlier uniform variations would be allowed too, but ones from 1944 would be the ideal for anyone doing uniform shopping.

I also think we should come up with a basic shopping list based along whatever theme we choose.  Since there are so many uniform variations and offerings, having a basic list will help new members find what they need easily.

Posted by Rekkon on Aug. 20 2015,11:18
I have already done some work on a packing list.  I will give it another pass and post it here.  Even if it ends up changing, it will give people a starting point to acquire what they need before the event.
Posted by ba64 on Aug. 20 2015,17:17
"Operation Ostwind"

Intro: Operation Ostwind will be a 48 hour WW 2 Eastern Front continuous fieldcraft event with the possibility of enemy contact.  *1944 *Small Unit Actions *Western Ukraine
Scenarios: Training in Field Craft, Field Works & Squad Tactics. Enemy contact will depend upon the actions of the individuals assigned to sentry duty, forward observation post and patrols.

Date: May 13th-15th, 2016
Fri.13th arrive by 12:00 noon for self-reg. and pre combat inspection.
Sat.14th Training
Sun.15th walk back to parking lot at 12:00 noon.

Location: Levis/Trow Mound Recreation Area, N1589 Fisher Ave. Neillsville, WI. 54456  ( 640 acres will be used of the 4 mile square county forest )

Note: More Info To Follow as Details Firm Up.

Posted by Fritz Moos on Aug. 27 2015,21:04
Is there a topo map of this area or coordinates of the field of play to reproduce period maps for orienteering?

With respect,

Fritz Sepp

Posted by gryphon on Aug. 28 2015,07:32
Hi Fritz,

I will stop by the county offices today or early next week to see what sort of USGS topos or railroad/timber co. surveys of the area they have on file in deeds or forest management. If that doesn't work, I'll try the Fire Protection District and the DNR; failing there, I'll try the USGS itself. Failing all else, we could actually attempt to have a squad play a combat engineers survey crew and try to generate our own maps in-game - I may have a source for 1930s-era surveying equipment (no promises.) I'm pretty certain I can lay my hands on existing topos for the area through the county government, though.

Posted by Rekkon on Aug. 28 2015,08:40
I was already thinking we should take advantage of a new location by having patrols map the area.  The commanders should have good maps for emergency purposes, but beyond that, terrain familiarization is something we do not often get to do.

At the last MAA Ripley event, we were shunted to the lesser MOUT site that most of us had never played.  When we went to use the "school" building, instead of everyone checking it out first, I suggested the attackers stay back and go in blind.  You only get the chance to do that once.

Posted by Aldrich on Oct. 27 2015,02:14
Some things that I think would be worth discussing in regards to Ostwind:

1)  Campsites.  How would we like to see campsites done for this event.  I can think of two possibilities mentioned.  The first being set bases for each side, which consists of a non mobile location where and HQ, tents, food, water, etc. can be deployed, coupled with smaller forward positions that can be established by each team in the field.  The second option is a mobile position, where players carry all things on their person, and set up camp wherever they may be at that particular time.  

2)  Uniforms and rank structure.   I know that there is no current rank structure right now, however, would it be worth considering establishing one for this event?  This may require some slight uniform modification in regards to insignia in order for people to fit the rank structure, but shouldn't require any major changes outside some alterations.

3)  Respawn rules.  Apologies if this has already been noted somewhere else, but have we firmly decided on what one does when they die?

Posted by Rekkon on Oct. 27 2015,11:45
1)  This is still up in the air.  Troy talked about going light where everything gets carried in.  Obviously some items get stashed at the patrol base, but this means no cots, no shelter beyond zelt tents and very limited support equipment. This requires each of us to make the initial hike with a fair amount of stuff, which is difficult given WWII kit, before you even consider splitting up all the group gear like field phones.  

The alternative is a somewhat larger patrol base with things like the Ersatzjack "staff" tent.  However, there are no vehicle trails (and no vehicles allowed) on the AO, so if we go "heavy," people will still need to carry all this stuff into and off the field, which will mean 2-3 hikes per person and the corresponding increase in set up/tear down time.

2)  This has not really been discussed yet beyond assuming that the two main organizers will be leadership for each side.

3)  Nope.  I was assuming 1-2 hour respawns.  It will most likely be long enough that effectively you will probably not have respawns for any individual task/patrol.  A medic system may be likely.

Posted by Aldrich on Oct. 27 2015,16:54
1)  I feel as though it would be more beneficial to have a set base with everything one would need as a place to fall back upon and respawn, rest, and re-arm.  However, I do agree that getting everything in the field may prove to be a problem in the time that we have.

3)  Will respawns be set at a location on the field?  Such as at a camp where a person may come back in, but cannot be ordered to take the field/leave camp until their time is up?

Posted by ba64 on Oct. 27 2015,18:39
I would like to see a main Patrol Base/HQ setup for Fri. night.
Sat. fighting positions dug, LP/OP with field phones placed and training done during the day. Some short range mapping/scouting patrols done before dark. Guard Duty/Fire Watch at night.
Sun. Long range patrols. Respawn 1 hour at HQ and use a medic system with a bleed out time.

Rank Structure based on a small squad of 7+.
1 sgt. squad leader
2 cpl. team leaders
4 pvt. team members
If we had 10 members per side, we could have 2 larger teams in the squad or have a 3rd three man team.

Right now I believe Ryan and myself have the most MilSim time logged so I would like to assign Ryan "Rekkon" as the German Squad Sgt. and myself "Boris" as the Soviet Squad Sgt. Team Leader Cpls could be 2 of the training instructors.

This winter I plan to hold at least two Ostwind meetings to work on Soviet field gear, kits, rations and instructor lesson plans (check off items needed) the German side will also be invited to do the same.

Posted by ba64 on Oct. 27 2015,19:00
Heavy Marching VS Light.

There are no AO roads that can be used in our 2 mile long map. The more gear brought in (Heavy) to the Patrol Base will most likely mean less distance off the starting point/road. Less distance off road will mean longer patrols to make contact. 1 mile patrol out = 2 miles total walked.

The basic gear to survive 48 hrs. walked in (Light) will most likely mean setting up a patrol base deeper into the woods. 1/2 mile patrol out = 1 mile total walked on patrol. It may take more than 1 patrol to make contact.

Walk 1 mile or 2 in just your combat load with food and water is not hard, but when it is off trail and in the wild woods it can be a work out. I want to take advantage of all of the daylight, sunrise to sunset.

Posted by Rekkon on Oct. 28 2015,09:04

(Aldrich @ Oct. 27 2015,16:54)
QUOTE
1)  I feel as though it would be more beneficial to have a set base with everything one would need as a place to fall back upon and respawn, rest, and re-arm.  However, I do agree that getting everything in the field may prove to be a problem in the time that we have.

3)  Will respawns be set at a location on the field?  Such as at a camp where a person may come back in, but cannot be ordered to take the field/leave camp until their time is up?

1) will happen regardless.  The only difference will be how well-equipped the patrol base is.

3) Respawns will most likely be at the patrol base.  I am operating under the assumption that we will use the Eastwind "dead" model where you can tend to things (prep gear, clean mess kits, stoke fires) around camp, but cannot do anything "active" (stand watch, man the field phone).

QUOTE
Heavy Marching VS Light.

There are no AO roads that can be used in our 2 mile long map. The more gear brought in (Heavy) to the Patrol Base will most likely mean less distance off the starting point/road. Less distance off road will mean longer patrols to make contact. 1 mile patrol out = 2 miles total walked.

The basic gear to survive 48 hrs. walked in (Light) will most likely mean setting up a patrol base deeper into the woods. 1/2 mile patrol out = 1 mile total walked on patrol. It may take more than 1 patrol to make contact.

Walk 1 mile or 2 in just your combat load with food and water is not hard, but when it is off trail and in the wild woods it can be a work out. I want to take advantage of all of the daylight, sunrise to sunset.


Everyone needs to remember that "light" marching is not going to be all that light weight-wise.  Each of us will not only have to carry our own combat gear, camp kit and two days of food/water but also a share of any group equipment like field phones.

Posted by Aldrich on Oct. 28 2015,11:28
I would highly recommend that any Germans who do not yet have a rucksack, to invest in one before this event.  I have found mine very useful for transporting gear and the like.
Posted by Rekkon on Oct. 28 2015,14:49
Rucksacks will be required gear.
Posted by Fritz Moos on Nov. 02 2015,19:40
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The German Troop Bicycle, Truppenfahrrad has a rear rack, Gepacktrager, of massive proportions; longer than 3 ammo cans wide.  There were special racks to mount zelts on the handlebars, and either K98Ks, MG 42s, or panzerfausts.  

The attached photos indicate the prodigious cargo transport capabilities, even without the provision of a required rucksack on our backs.

As Troy indicated the absence of roads in the AO but the presence of bike trails, this might be suitable to the terrain.

Mit Respekt,

Fritz Sepp

Posted by andre on Nov. 03 2015,15:33
"As Troy indicated the absence of roads in the AO but the presence of bike trails, this might be suitable to the terrain."

There won't be any bike trails in the portion of the park we'll be in. It's pretty much wild woods with patches of DNR planted trees.

Rough for infantry, very rough with bicycle.

Posted by Fritz Moos on Nov. 03 2015,18:06
Kamarade,

My sincerest apologies and a canteen of your favorite vodka!
I must have misunderstood Troy's post over on the Bicycle Project thread;
QUOTE FROM TROY:

"There are bike trails leading out of the parking area at the Levis Recreation Forest. The Germans could ride bikes the mile to their main camp and staging area. Right now there is a small group of Germans (4) who plan to do Ostwind. I don't know if they would all want to do up a basic German WW 2 style bike. I have a old bike that could work for a conversion."

Or perhaps I just got turned around in the woods  :D
Mit respekt,

Stepped Fritz

Or perhaps there is another Ostwind with secret maps?! :D  :D   ???

Posted by Ersatzjack on Nov. 08 2015,21:16
Here is a new piece of the puzzle.  I recently met with some old family friends that I haven't seen in years and turns out they have roughly 500-acres (a 350-acre parcel and 155-acre parcel across a county highway from the 350).  This land is SW of Neillsville near Taylor, WI and even closer for Troy and myself and possibly a little closer for MN folks though not much.  As long as we don't use it during deer season (middle September through December) or Turkey season (April-May) I have permission to use the property for a WWII event.  I was thinking March would be excellent or we could use it instead of McCoy in August.  I had the tour today and it is by far the nicest piece of terrain I've ever fantasized playing on.  Rolling terrain, a nice mix of dirt roads and ATV trails, mature forest growth, wide tree lines connecting agriculture plots.  Amazing stuff.  We'd still collect donations and bio-bbs would be required.  So what dates appeal to folks.  March, July?, August?
Posted by Aldrich on Nov. 08 2015,22:01
Awesome!  I am fine with any of those months.
Posted by ba64 on Nov. 09 2015,00:40
There could still be some snow on the ground in March. July and Aug. are the hot months of the year. People would need to come prepared and pace themselves. I would be fine with any of these months. If there are AO roads/trails, that would help with the hauling of extra water and larger tents. I just bought a new set of tires for the Ba-64.
Posted by Ersatzjack on Nov. 09 2015,11:08
I like March for the reason that there are still no bugs.  This site is heaven without bugs.  Plus, though it could replace McCoy, why replace it until it is needed?  How would a March event suit folks?  Maybe end of March.  There are many roads so travel is easier and even the woods are not that dense with underbrush since the canopy is high.  As I said, ideal location.
Posted by andre on Nov. 09 2015,18:51
All months would work for me, March included.
This could be a nice dry run for Ostwind.

Posted by ba64 on Jan. 05 2016,17:45
2016 is here! and a new season of airsoft to look forward to. We only have a few winter months to work on pulling a complete and correct kit together. The May 13-15 Ostwind event will have a larger required list than our past MOA events. Lets make 2016 a year of improvement!
Anyone needing help can PM Boris.

Posted by ersatzjack2 on Jan. 05 2016,22:57
What a nice positive post.  Good sentiment indeed.

I'm confused.  I've read the thread and as a group are we playing this milsim immmersion event in May on the land without trails and hence, with no vehicles and on foot or are we opting for a different date which has not been posted on Mike's site with the roads and the easier terrain where logistics might (probably) be better.

Also, Troy, does the May date interfere with Watertown or any other blankfire event.  May is pretty busy as I recall.

Finally.... When these two questions are answered I think we should post an in-progress list of likely attendees so we get a feel for numbers and just how big or small the event is shaping up to be.

Sure hope the 222 is painted by then.

Posted by Ersatzjack on Jan. 06 2016,00:18
I don't know about conflict dates but the tentative March event has nothing to do with the May event.  The only may event for blank-fire that I know of right now is Armed Forces Weekend 21-22 May.

Ostwind is May13-15th and I think it will be all infantry anyway so the 222 doesn't figure in.

Posted by ersatzjack2 on Jan. 07 2016,20:41
So are we doing two events?  Are we doing a tentative March event on the land you have access to and then an ostwind event in May?  Or are we going to do ostwind on the land you have access to so we can use vehicles and have roads, logistics, comfort, etc.  I'm for the latter as I would prefer a command tent, pathways, and vehicles to the rougher alternative.  What do others think?
Posted by Ersatzjack on Jan. 07 2016,22:53
Two events.  Troy is organizing his and when I get final clearance I'll organize ours.
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